tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-44882752907805895632024-03-05T03:03:59.994-08:00WW2 HerosAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02718483866805092105noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4488275290780589563.post-10181076107085890722014-09-21T10:38:00.000-07:002014-09-21T10:39:27.998-07:00Abcd<div><div></div><div>Abcd</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:8px;color:#575757">Sent from my Samsung GALAXY Note3 on the Telstra 4G network</div></div></div>Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02718483866805092105noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4488275290780589563.post-1580086307795903902014-09-21T01:28:00.000-07:002014-09-21T01:28:04.897-07:00Naik Ilyas, Raja of signal corps<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<b><span style="color: #548dd4; font-size: 36.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-themecolor: text2; mso-themetint: 153;">From Defeat to
victory<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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</v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]--><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Defeat of English--------------- victory of Ilyas soldier!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">(With reference to William </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Slim</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"> ‘book defeat into victory’)<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"> I am Mohammad Ilyas recruited to royal Indian
Army on 3<sup>rd</sup> June 1941, trained at Bangalore. I was posted to
Sialkot, Quetta, Kolkata and then 15-indian signal corps stationed at Ranji
(India). The corps was sent to Burma but it stopped at Chittagong (Bangladesh)
and came back on july 1942 as it was newly established and incomplete.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">15-indian signal corps was hurriedly completed and sent to Burma in
October 1943. I was in of 15-indian signal corps which then comprised 7, 5
division. In Burma the CORPS stationed at BAWLI BAZZAR. I was deputed to GOPI
BAZZAR TELEPHONE LINE POST.</span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Form 4<sup>th</sup> June 1944 to 4<sup>th</sup>
October 1944 everything was under control but on 4<sup>th</sup> October 1944 at
06:00 Local time I performed the routine communication check it was O.K. At 08:00 Local time I heard and saw <u>the <i>Major Indian Water Transport Company who was
positioned about 5-6 miles ahead of me</i></u> at Tung bazaar running bear footed and screaming
at the top of his voice <span style="text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your life!</span> …….....................
<span style="color: red; text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your
life!</span> …………………………………
I said what happened??! He
answered <span style="text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your
life!</span> ……................................................<span style="text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your life!</span>
………………………<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Japanese launched a big and vicious attack all our front
line Divisions were surrounded! MORE THEN HALF OF MY COY MEN ARE KILLED!
<span style="text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your life!</span>
……...............................................................................................
<span style="text-transform: uppercase;">Ilyas! ilyas! Run for your life!</span>
…………………………………………… Japanese
are chasing us I said running will avail us nothing! But what he had
seen was so frightening that repeating this (Ilyas! Ilyas! Run for your life!
……............................................. lyas! Ilyas! Run for your life!)
he ran away along with his soldiersI quickly performed the communication check
It was really surprising that all wireless, radios rely and telephone lines
communication was cut! Again I performed communication check Except my special
line all were DIS…………. <span style="color: #00b050;">Also mentioned on pages # 225-669 <u><span style="text-transform: uppercase;">defeat in victory</span></u> by Sir William Slim<o:p></o:p></span></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">I called
through special line my Company Commander Major Mukhar Jee (Indian) asked where
are you? I answered at my post he said in dismay save yourself and soldiers
somehow and bring them out any ways! Enemy has reached and attacked our </span></b><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">MAIN CORPS
Headquarters. I said I don’t want to runaway! He said O.K in this case “I
through you to the rear command as we are retreating to unknown place! <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">When I was contacted to the rear command, the
operator asked “from where you are talking?” I answered FRONT LINE TELEPHONE
LINE COMMUNICATION POST COMMANDER GOPI BAZZAR. He said FIELD MARSHAL has ordered
that any front line communication “be through to me direct!” therefore I am
transferring your call to the field marshal! Field
marshal asked me <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim): “who are you?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “TELEPHONE LINE COMMUNICATION POST
COMMANDER GOPI BAZZAR” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim): “what is your rank?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “Lance Naik, sir” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim): “how many persons are with you?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “four signal men” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim): “retreat as the enemy has penetrated 20 mile
behind you?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “Sir, if you help me I will not
leave this place” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim): “here are enemies everywhere! What can I do
for you in the present circumstances?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="color: #00b050; font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “I want infantry! I will tell them
safe route” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Field marshal (Sir William Slim) smiled: “O.K do prepare and brief me?” <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Me: “O.K, SIR”!</span></b><b><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Thereafter Field marshal (Sir William Slim)
contacted inquired every 15 minutes! <o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Main points:<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">1.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">All our front line divisions were surrounded.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">2.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">All communication was cut, wireless jammed and
telephone line cut.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">3.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Divisions destroyed<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">4.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">CORPS Headquarters was forced to retreat<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">5.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Forces were retreating up to 80 miles a day!!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">6.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">British heavy guns were abandoned by the gunners
deputed!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">7.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Our guns and ammunition was being used on/against
us!!!!!!!!!!!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">8.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Enemy was announcing its victory repeatedly “<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">9.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Enemy propaganda “Delhi fall any moment!!!<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
<div class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast" style="mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; text-indent: -.25in;">
<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">10.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">
</span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; line-height: 115%; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt;">Our sweet Field marshal (Sir William Slim) was
weeping<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02718483866805092105noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4488275290780589563.post-39221613269589493602014-09-20T23:42:00.003-07:002014-09-20T23:42:41.362-07:00Forgotton Soldiers<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left;" trbidi="on">
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><b><span style="color: #00b0f0; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">1.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-weight: normal;"> </span></span></b><!--[endif]--><b><span style="color: #00b0f0; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Today's Pakistanis in
the British Indian Army during WWII<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQ4myLwQHVWeiFTv9RnQo_n2FNidMpLihs8u1KHSbux1Ep4ocV9oNmeF3xJ-gW0GDbnjCjsXShTdsMRwTeipfRu4cT5TRow_HNZ7QMPuqpzHzbQFWYeb3JC536XxFwNvazlFnYJ292nKc/s1600/lass.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjQ4myLwQHVWeiFTv9RnQo_n2FNidMpLihs8u1KHSbux1Ep4ocV9oNmeF3xJ-gW0GDbnjCjsXShTdsMRwTeipfRu4cT5TRow_HNZ7QMPuqpzHzbQFWYeb3JC536XxFwNvazlFnYJ292nKc/s1600/lass.JPG" height="240" width="320" /></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Few peoples ignore that the British
Indian Army during the WWII was the largest volunteer army in history, at 2.5
million (25,00,000) ; fewer peoples know that this British Indian Army had a</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">non negligible</span></i><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">presence of
peoples from today's Pakistan, one of its ethnic groups, the Punjabi Muslims to
not name them, called the "backbone of the British Indian Army"
(Lieutenant-General Sir George MacMunn.)</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
Reading that "British Pakistani" thread, I was wondering if there
were was an awareness of their (grandfathers) contributions in favour of the
British during the WWII ?<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">...On the eve of World War II almost 34,000
Punjabi Muslims were in the army (29 per cent) and during World War-II over
380,000 joined (about 14% of the total). No other class came close to these
figures: Sikhs: 116,000, Gurkhas: 109,000, Muslims of other classes from UP,
Deccan, Madras, Bengal, NWFP, etc 274,000, were recruited during 1939-1945.
Muslims as a whole constituted a quarter of the Indian Army as of 1947....<br />
<b><br />
Almost 70 per cent of the wartime recruitment was from what became Pakistan</b>...<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">An informative little clip:<br />
<br />
<br />
Punjabi Muslims:<br />
<br />
The first ever Victoria Cross ("highest military award for gallantry in
the face of the enemy given to British and Commonwealth forces") to be
awarded to someone from British India was given to Khudadad Khan, from today's
Chakwal district, Punjab province of Pakistan<br />
<br />
</span><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">On 31st October, 1914, at Hollebeke, Belgium, the British Officer
in charge of the detachment having been wounded, and the other gun put out of
action by a shell, Sepoy Khudadad, though himself wounded, remained working his
gun until all the other five men of the gun detachment had been killed.</span></i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> <br />
<br />
Do you think it might give a "sense of belonging" to the British
Pakistanis, making assimilation or at least integration an easier task ?<br />
I always read about Sikhs or Gurkhas and their services for the British, but
rarer about today's Punjabi Muslims and/or Pakistanis.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">2.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 21:56<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672458"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672458#post5672458"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#2</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="2"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">Originlly Posted by</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> <b>akheR</b> </span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Few peoples ignore that the British Indian Army
during the WWII was the largest volunteer army in history, at 2.5 million ;
fewer peoples know that this British Indian Army had a</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">non negligible</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">presence of peoples from today's Pakistan, one
of its ethnic groups, the Punjabi Muslims to not name them, called the
"backbone of the British Indian Army" (Lieutenant-General Sir George
MacMunn.)</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
Reading that "British Pakistani" thread, I was wondering if there
were was an awareness of their (grandfathers) contributions in favour of the
British during the WWII ?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</span></i><a href="http://defencejournal.com/sept99/martial-races.htm" target="_blank"><i><span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">http://defencejournal.com/sept99/martial-races.htm</span></i></a><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
<br />
Punjabi Muslims:<br />
<br />
The first ever Victoria Cross ("highest military award for gallantry in
the face of the enemy given to British and Commonwealth forces") to be
awarded to someone from British India was given to Khudadad Khan, from today's
Chakwal district, Punjab province of Pakistan<br />
<br />
Do you think it might give a "sense of belonging" to the British
Pakistanis, making assimilation or at least integration an easier task ?<br />
I always read about Sikhs or Gurkhas and their services for the British, but
rarer about today's Punjabi Muslims and/or Pakistanis.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">How many of them Punjabis are actually
real Punjabis and not Potoharis/Mirpuri's/Pathan's and Hindko's from Attock
etc?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">3.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 21:59<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672460"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672460#post5672460"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#3</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="3"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">The great majority was from
Rawalpindi (followed by Jhelum but also areas of NWFP and Balochistan), isn't
that the Potohar ? And how saying "Punjabis" contradicts the fact
that they were "Potoharis" ? Potoharis = sub group of Punjabis, as
far as I know (please don't quote the whole post either).<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">4.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:02<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672465"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672465#post5672465"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#4</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="4"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Forgotton Soldiers: Soldiers from Pakistan</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
Contributed by Yaser khalid<br />
People in story:Muhammad Khan<br />
Location of story:Turkey<br />
Background to story:Army<br />
Article ID: A2054387<br />
Contributed on: 17 November 2003<br />
<br />
<br />
Although people all over the world faced the miseries of World wars but I have
two samll but interesting incidents which will reflect the sufferings of people
in Pakistan.<br />
1. This story is of a young lady who later became my grandmother. She was
engaged to a soldier in then British army (now Pakistan army). His name was
Muhammad Khan. Both sides were preparing for marriage when WW-11 started and he
was sent to some front near Turkey. And then moved to some other front and then
to other front. After couple of years, he stopped writting letters and there
was no news about him. Here every body specially the young lady was waiting for
her bride groom. But he never turned up. The family members convinced the lady
that he must be dead in some war. After many years of waiting for a letter or
any news in desperation, convinced her the soldier must be killed some where.
Half heartedly the lady agreed to marry some one else(my grand father).<br />
After couple of months a day was agreed and on that day when ceremony finished
and all the guests were having their meal, a new guest came, he was the lost
soldier.<br />
He begged to the lady`s relative, but it was too late, the ceremony had already
taken place. It was a real movie scene. The soldier became injured during
action and then was taken prisoner by the Germans and remain there for this
time, so could not communicate.<br />
This is just a story of a single girl, we have places in Pakistan where hundreds
of homes have a similar story. someone brother , someone son is missing and
still don`t know what happened to them.<br />
2. This story is of my uncle who was a Colonel in Pakistan army and now is
retired. His father was a soldier in British Army and when my uncle was just a
kid, his father was sent to a front on WW-11. After couple of years, there was
no news about him, or no letter from him.<br />
They tried there best to trace him but all in vain.<br />
This kid (my uncle), grew young and got commission in Pakistan Army. Year after
year, he tried to get some information, but all in vain. He went to the rank of
Major and was posted to some far area/border of Pakistan, when some stranger
came to meet him. He was a very old man. He told him that he was from his
father`s company/unit. They both were fighting against German/Turkish forces in
Turkey when his father was killed and all his fellow soldiers burried him
there. He told him that his grave is still in that battle ground in Turkey.<br />
My uncle went to that battle ground, and there ware many unnamed graves of the
soldiers from sub-continent.<br />
He had no other option to leave flowers there and come back.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/87/a2054387.shtml" target="_blank"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peop...a2054387.shtml</span></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<br /></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_15"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">How many of them Punjabis are actualy real
Punjabis and not Potoharis/Mirpuri's/Pathan's and Hindko's from Attock etc?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">5.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:04<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672472"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672472#post5672472"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#5</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="5"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">The great majority was from Rawalpindi (followed
by Jhelum but also areas of NWFP and Balochistan), isn't that the Potohar ? And
how saying "Punjabis" contradicts the fact that they were
"Potoharis" ? Potoharis = sub group of Punjabis, as far as I know
(please don't quote the whole post either).<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Potoharis are not Punjabis Ranjit
Singh invented Punjabi it is not a real ethnicity like Pathan Balochi sindi
etc.<br />
<br />
What were Potoharis before Ranjit Singh when the Gakkhars ruled Potohar?<br />
Are non pashtun Hindkos such as Yasir Hameed Punjabis or how about the non
Pashtun Pahari speakers? Their language is a lot closer to Punjabi that
Potohari.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">6.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:05<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672474"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672474#post5672474"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#6</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="6"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">so in other words Pakistani muslims
were fighting to free the Jews from Nazi's crimes. So many times we have helped
them and yet we are still the bad ones, huh?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<hr align="center" size="2" style="width: 235.4pt;" width="314" />
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sachnistan and Afridinistan, the
most insecure fan ever.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">7.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:06<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672476"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672476#post5672476"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#7</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="7"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">mani1</span></b><b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">oh man I can already sense where the thread is heading now,
please forget these linguistic mathematics and keep in mind that they were all
from Pakistan, period.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">8.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:09<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672480"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672480#post5672480"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#8</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="8"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I live in the UK the vast majority
of the Pakistani contingent in the British Indian Army was from Gujar
Khan,Mirpur,Jhelum,Chakwal and Attock, Hence why these groups are in the
majority in the UK.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">9.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:13<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672490"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672490#post5672490"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#9</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="9"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Today's Pakistanis in the British Indian Army
during WWII<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I had a racist guy in my class at
school during our history lesson we got talking about the WW1 and 2 . Anyway he
went on to say that he didn't mind the polish here because they were allies
during the wars . I got quite ****** and said what about the Indians,
Bangladeshis and Pakistanis that fought and died . His face went red as the
whole class started to listen and he had to eat his own words . Anyway the
point I was trying to make is not a lot of people know that Pakistanis or even
South east Asians fought in the wars .Sorry for going off topic .<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">A man who stands for nothing will
fall for anything.<br />
<br />
Malcolm X<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">10.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:14<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672491"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672491#post5672491"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#10</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="10"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">I live in the UK the vast majority of the
Pakistani contingent in the British Indian Army was from Gujar
Khan,Mirpur,Jhelum,Chakwal and Attock, Hence why these groups are in the
majority in the UK.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Yes, those are the main areas.<br />
<br />
But do they themselves know that, are they themselves aware of that fact ?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">11.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:18<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672498"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672498#post5672498"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#11</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="11"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Yes, those are the main areas.<br />
<br />
But do they themselves know that, are they themselves aware of that fact ?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I don't think they care unless they
want to brag "Potohar shera na ilhaqa"<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">12.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:19<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672499"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672499#post5672499"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#12</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="12"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">I don't think they care unless they want to brag
"Potohar shera na ilhaqa"<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">13.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:33<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672521"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672521#post5672521"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#13</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="13"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">My grandfather fought against the
Japanese in Burma in the Second World War. Japan had committed horrific crimes
against the Chinese, the Rape of Nanking being one example and had actually
inflicted a severe defeat on the British in Singapore. It was the British
Empire's last hurrah but it must have been extraordinary to see ordinary
officers from the Commonwealth and from the developing world, fighting side by
side with the white aristocratic class that ruled over them in London.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">14.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:34<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672523"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672523#post5672523"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#14</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="14"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Few peoples ignore that the British Indian Army
during the WWII was the largest volunteer army in history, at 2.5 million ;
fewer peoples know that this British Indian Army had a</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">non negligible</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">presence of peoples from today's Pakistan, one
of its ethnic groups, the Punjabi Muslims to not name them, called the
"backbone of the British Indian Army"<br />
<br />
Do you think it might give a "sense of belonging" to the British
Pakistanis, making assimilation or at least integration an easier task ?<br />
I always read about Sikhs or Gurkhas and their services for the British, but
rarer about today's Punjabi Muslims and/or Pakistanis.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Well you've answered your own
question. In Britain, no one is aware that the British army had any foreign
soldiers, never mind Pakistanis who died for the cause. Why would Punjabis be
proud of it when their host nation isn't?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">15.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:36<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672526"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672526#post5672526"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#15</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="15"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Yes, those are the main areas.<br />
<br />
But do they themselves know that, are they themselves aware of that fact ?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Yes they do. They were invited to
come the uk in the 50s and 60s., that is how my father came to the UK. My
mother still receives british war pension, its very meagre amount nothing to
shout about.<br />
<br />
People who fought in ww2 in my family<br />
<br />
Father - burma</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
Uncle - north africa<br />
Maternal Grandfather's brother 1</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
Maternal Grandfather's brother 2 - japanese pisoner of war<br />
Many more relatives from both mother and father's side<br />
<br />
Prior to that both my paternal and maternal grandfathers were in british army.
Many more people i can mention but you get the idea.<br />
<br />
After losing power to ranjit singh back in early part of 19th century, the
rajputs of the area realised oh **** better do something worthwhile to earn a
living, but their ego would not let them work in fields like their peasants....
jatts, arains etc.. Instead, they would prefer to join the army as it was
considered a noble profession.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Eagle_Eye; 22nd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 22:40</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">16.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:51<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672546"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672546#post5672546"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#16</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="16"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">nice topic akher bro<br />
<br />
my paternal grandfather died fighting the japanese. no one from my family knew
much about what happened as the only person to return back to our village went
kind of crazy and claimed my paternal grand father was still alive, had lost
his memory and went awol.<br />
<br />
as it happens i grew up with tales of how my paternal grandfather may still be
alive in japan or something until i was trying to google map my village and
after putting in its name got lead to a war memorial website.<br />
<br />
checked it out and there it was, apparently in singapore the last remnant of my
paternal grand father is his name etched into a war memorial. he fought in the
punjab 3/16 and after much research i managed to find out exactly how he died,
most likely on the malaysia thai border in operation krohcol.<br />
<br />
took about 65 years but my dad eventually found out what happened to his dad,
and knowing now what he do of how the japanese treated prisoners, it was pbly
for the best.<br />
<br />
disclaimer: apparently im not really punjabi since im pothwari, learn something
new everyday</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">17.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:52<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672549"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672549#post5672549"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#17</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="17"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Both of My grandfathers fighted for
english army.My (DADA)N got injured in the plane by bulled so had to come
back,He was in army in first world war aswell.<br />
He also fought the kashmir war and got some medal aswell,and also 40 canal
worth land.<br />
My (nana) ship has a inside man of japan as captain,and they surrendered to
japan.he was jailed there for 10 years.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">18.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:54<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672555"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672555#post5672555"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#18</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="18"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">and I am kashmiri,japenese gave
people who were there prisoners compensations 2 3 years back but my Nana had
already died by that time,6 7 years back.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">19.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 22:59<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672565"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672565#post5672565"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#19</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="19"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Japanese army was very cruel to the
british pows. Japanese PoWs in my family did not live long after the war.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">20.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 23:26<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672616"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672616#post5672616"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#20</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="20"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Inspiring stories really thanks for
sharing.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">21.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 23:38<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672641"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672641#post5672641"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#21</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="21"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Japanese army was very cruel to the british
pows. Japanese PoWs in my family did not live long after the war.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Japan rather bluntly called their
policy "Kill all, rape all, loot all". There are stories of how
Chinese POWs were shackled together and kicked down into holes where rabid dogs
tore their flesh apart. The Japanese were awful in their conduct.<br />
<br />
My grandfather suffered an eye injury in Burma, I should try and dig up some
documents if possible.. I doubt he'd approve of the savage Burmese state in
existence today.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">22.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 23:56<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672667"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672667#post5672667"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#22</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="22"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Japan rather bluntly called their policy
"Kill all, rape all, loot all". There are stories of how Chinese POWs
were shackled together and kicked down into holes where rabid dogs tore their
flesh apart. The Japanese were awful in their conduct.<br />
<br />
My grandfather suffered an eye injury in Burma, I should try and dig up some
documents if possible.. I doubt he'd approve of the savage Burmese state in
existence today.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">The japanese were savagely cruel.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
My father also fought on the burmese front, was shot in the chest and survived,
had to come home early. Doubt he would have approved what Burma has become
today. Did you catch the Sky news report on Burmese violence today?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">23.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">22nd March 2013, 23:57<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672670"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672670#post5672670"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#23</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="23"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">for those interested heres a</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><a href="http://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/Cemeteries/Singapore_Memorial/" target="_blank"><b><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">war memorial</span></b></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">page, i linked to the singapore one
because thats the one i had faved. if you search through you start to find so
many people, i found 6 from in and around my village out of which i think my
dad had heard of 2 people.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">24.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 00:00<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672677"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672677#post5672677"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#24</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="24"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Today's Pakistanis in the British Indian Army
during WWII<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">You guys are lucky to know your
family history . Of the little I know I have an great uncle who fought in 65
and 72 . After my grandad I don't know a lot about who was around before his
time .<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">A man who stands for nothing will
fall for anything.<br />
<br />
Malcolm X<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">25.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 00:09<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672687"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672687#post5672687"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#25</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="25"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">You guys are lucky to know your family history .
Of the little I know I have an great uncle who fought in 65 and 72 . After my
grandad I don't know a lot about who was around before his time .<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">lols, i got the whole story when i
went to the village few years back....<br />
<br />
legend goes a powerful landowner got his daughter wed, granted her some lands
and as was custom then some men came and lifted her doli to take her to her to
be inlaws for the wedding...<br />
<br />
on the way there nature called so she demanded that she be let off to do what
she had too, but as it was against tradition she was forbidden to do so
repeatedly, eventually she got so annoyed she got out of the carraige or
whatever it was and told the lot of them to bog off and she settled the lands
her father gave her.<br />
<br />
worrying about her security her father ordered his son (her brother) and his
wife to go settle near her and look after her and we were the descendents of
her brother and sister in law, but the village is named after her, which pbly
explains a lot about the women in my family (joking).<br />
<br />
could all just be old wives tales though... only thing failry certain is my
village got settled in the late 1700s.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by ElRaja; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 00:13</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">26.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 00:21<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672695"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672695#post5672695"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#26</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="26"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?51648-pakistanalltheway&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720" title="pakistanalltheway is offline"><b><span style="color: #181818; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">pakistan
all the way</span></b></a><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Today's Pakistanis in the British Indian Army
during WWII<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">lols, i got the whole story when i went to the
village few years back....<br />
<br />
legend goes a powerful landowner got his daughter wed, granted her some lands
and as was custom then some men came and lifted her doli to take her to her to
be inlaws for the wedding...<br />
<br />
on the way there nature called so she demanded that she be let off to do what
she had too, but as it was against tradition she was forbidden to do so
repeatedly, eventually she got so annoyed she got out of the carraige or
whatever it was and told the lot of them to bog off and she settled the lands
her father gave her.<br />
<br />
worrying about her security her father ordered his son (her brother) and his
wife to go settle near her and look after her and we were the descendents of
her brother and sister in law, but the village is named after her, which pbly
explains a lot about the women in my family (joking).<br />
<br />
could all just be old wives tales though... only thing certain is my ancestors
were most likely sikh 400 or 500 years ago, and my village got settled in the
late 1700s.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Lol what a story .</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
My great grandad worked for the man who owned most of the village . He worked
for him for about 40 years as a farm labourer . When he was about 60 years old
he asked the landlord for a piece of land just big enough to build a small
house on . The landowner said ok but he wanted a lot of money . Now this was
back in the 70s and my grandad was here in the uk he went back to the village
and gave the money but even then he refused to give the land . My grandma begged
him and he ended up giving the land . That house for as long as I am alive will
remain standing because to me it has sentimental value .<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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</span></div>
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">A man who stands for nothing will
fall for anything.<br />
<br />
Malcolm X<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">27.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 01:06<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672730"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672730#post5672730"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#27</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="27"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><img alt="Quote" border="0" height="11" src="file:///C:/Users/LIAQUA~1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image005.gif" v:shapes="Picture_x0020_131" width="18" /><!--[endif]--></span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">Originally Posted by</span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> <b>akheR</b> </span><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672454#post5672454"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-no-proof: yes; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_132" o:spid="_x0000_i1144"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Few peoples ignore that the British Indian Army
during the WWII was the largest volunteer army in history, at 2.5 million ;
fewer peoples know that this British Indian Army had a</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">non negligible</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">presence of peoples from today's Pakistan, one
of its ethnic groups, the Punjabi Muslims to not name them, called the
"backbone of the British Indian Army" (Lieutenant-General Sir George
MacMunn.)</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
Reading that "British Pakistani" thread, I was wondering if there
were was an awareness of their (grandfathers) contributions in favour of the
British during the WWII ?<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
</span></i><a href="http://defencejournal.com/sept99/martial-races.htm" target="_blank"><i><span style="color: black; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">http://defencejournal.com/sept99/martial-races.htm</span></i></a><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
An informative little clip:<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Punjabi Muslims:<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
The first ever Victoria Cross ("highest military award for gallantry in
the face of the enemy given to British and Commonwealth forces") to be
awarded to someone from British India was given to Khudadad Khan, from today's
Chakwal district, Punjab province of Pakistan<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
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<br />
Do you think it might give a "sense of belonging" to the British
Pakistanis, making assimilation or at least integration an easier task ?<br />
I always read about Sikhs or Gurkhas and their services for the British, but
rarer about today's Punjabi Muslims and/or Pakistanis.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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khudad khan (is a pashtun akher), but born in punjab like imran khan and ahmed
shahzad, so if you want to claim him as your own then fair enough<br />
mir dast khan<br />
ali haider khan bangash<br />
<br />
<br />
the three pashtun in history to recieve a victorias cross for bravery</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-no-proof: yes;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_135"
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<br />
just correcting what was in the op, dont mind<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Myrmidon; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 01:13</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">28.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 01:12<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5672735"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5672735#post5672735"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#28</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="28"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">You do realize punjabis also have
"Khan" surname? Not as common as in KP ofcourse.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">29.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 04:35<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673055"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673055#post5673055"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#29</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="29"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">my great grandfather fought in both
first and second great war for British ..went to middle east, Burma, Italy
during expedition ..was honored by queen herself during a ceremony in Delhi in
1921 we still have that certificate with British coat of arms printed on it.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">“I’m not God but if I were God, ¾ of
you<br />
would be girls, and the rest would be pizza and<br />
beer.”<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">30.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 05:36<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673158"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673158#post5673158"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#30</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="30"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">This is one of the first times in a
while that I've just enjoyed reading a thread and learning different stories
and experiences. Thankyou everyone for sharing, and I hope to read more.<br />
<br />
I worry that it is not directly related, but feel inspired enough to discuss it
anyway. I wish to visit Ypres at some point because my great uncle was killed
there in WWI. He was very young. It is a tradition for every man of the family
to go and pay tribute at Menin Gate and I now feel ready to go and do it
myself. There are 54,406 casualties honoured at this memorial alone, and that
is only people who were identified! The scale of death and loss thus becomes
incalculable.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
Ultimately, all of these people we are discussing on an Internet forum fought
and died so we could have the privilege of living as we do now. It's incredibly
humbling. Personally the above is the only military history I am aware of in my
family; my grandparents were all evacuated as children during the Second World
War, so they all have different kinds of stories to tell.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">31.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 05:42<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673166"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673166#post5673166"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#31</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="31"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> (British) Indians who received Victoria Cross
in WWII.<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Abdul
Hafiz 9th Jat Infantry <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Ali
Haidar 13th Frontier Force Rifles <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Bhandari
Ram Garhwal Rifles <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Chhelu
Ram 6th Rajputana Rifles<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Fazal
Din 10th Baluch Regiment <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Gian
Singh 15th Punjab Regiment<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Kamal
Ram 8th Punjab Regiment <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Karamjeet
Judge 4/15th Punjab Regiment <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Namdeo
Jadav 5th Maratha Light Infantry <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Singh 1/11th Garhwal
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Parkash
Singh 8th Punjab Regiment <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Singh 13th Frontier Force Rifles <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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Ram 6th Rajputana Rifles <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sher
Shah 16th Punjab Regiment <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Umrao
Singh Royal Indian
Artillery <o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Courier New"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Yeshwant
Ghadge Maratha Light Infantry<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">32.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 05:45<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673169"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673169#post5673169"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#32</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="32"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Well you've answered your own question. In
Britain, no one is aware that the British army had any foreign soldiers, never
mind Pakistanis who died for the cause. Why would Punjabis be proud of it when
their host nation isn't?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">It's quite shocking actually that
for a public generally quite proud of its armed forces, most British people
aren't aware that in the past, and now, we have been and are joined by many
courageous men and women from around the world.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
I will say though that, aside from the general public, Her Majesty's government
itself has great respect for our military history - even today, anybody from
Britain, Ireland or much of the Commonwealth can join the British Army, almost
as a testament to the unity through diversity which has protected us in the
past, and continues to keep us safe. This upholds our open-minded values and
mirrors our accepting multicultural society very well.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">33.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 06:14<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673207"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673207#post5673207"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#33</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="33"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">I don't think they care unless they want to brag</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">"Potohar shera na ilhaqa"</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">34.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 06:44<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673265"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673265#post5673265"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#34</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="34"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">my cousin grandfather served in
British army in WW2 ..he was part of brit army which captured Egypt from
Italians<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">“I’m not God but if I were God, ¾ of
you<br />
would be girls, and the rest would be pizza and<br />
beer.”<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">35.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 06:49<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5673276"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5673276#post5673276"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#35</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="35"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">wonder what our grandkids will have
to say about us.<br />
<br />
my grandfather was a legendary poster/troll, he had over 10 thousand posts.<br />
my grandfather was expert in Bollywood news.<br />
my cousins grandfather was such a warrior that he got his IP blocked from
neighbour's forums.<br />
<br />
what have we achieved that our grandkids would be proud of us?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">36.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 12:32<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5674434"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5674434#post5674434"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#36</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="36"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">It's quite shocking actually that for a public
generally quite proud of its armed forces, most British people aren't aware
that in the past, and now, we have been and are joined by many courageous men
and women from around the world.</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
I will say though that, aside from the general public, Her Majesty's government
itself has great respect for our military history - even today, anybody from
Britain, Ireland or much of the Commonwealth can join the British Army, almost
as a testament to the unity through diversity which has protected us in the
past, and continues to keep us safe. This upholds our open-minded values and
mirrors our accepting multicultural society very well.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Or it may also be due to not many
people joining the british army to fill up the required numbers?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">37.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 14:31<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5674960"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5674960#post5674960"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#37</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="37"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_177"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Or it may also be due to not many people joining
the british army to fill up the required numbers?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Not at all, the Army is constantly
being downsized.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">38.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 14:38<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5674987"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5674987#post5674987"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#38</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="38"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_181"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">wonder what our grandkids will have to say about
us.<br />
<br />
my grandfather was a legendary poster/troll, he had over 10 thousand posts.<br />
my grandfather was expert in Bollywood news.<br />
my cousins grandfather was such a warrior that he got his IP blocked from
neighbour's forums.<br />
<br />
what have we achieved that our grandkids would be proud of us?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">How about our grand fathers died so
we can troll? We are living in golden age right now.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">39.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 14:45<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675003"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675003#post5675003"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#39</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="39"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?1269-Bewal-Express&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720" title="Bewal Express is online now"><b><span style="color: #181818; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">Bewal
Express</span></b></a><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">My dad fought for the British in Burma along with my Uncle and
many others from our village. After the War he joined the Pakistani army(he was
court-martialed for doing his duty by a very prominent General) and then he
came to England in 1961.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">40.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 14:53<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675025"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675025#post5675025"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#40</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="40"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_188"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">(British) Indians who received Victoria Cross in WWII.<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">lol ali haider bangash has never
classified himself as an indian</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-no-proof: yes;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape
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<br />
also incidenlty, is that the sher shah from near enough mianwali? of the awan
tribe?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Myrmidon; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 15:17</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">41.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:03<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675048"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675048#post5675048"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#41</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="41"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_194"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">How about our grand fathers died so we can
troll? We are living in golden age right now.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">we are living in the most boring
age..nothing is exciting about this age.. you get some extra leg space in a
flight, and that becomes so exciting that you put it on fb.. the highlight of
your day becomes some troll war on a forum.. your battles are online, laptops
are your trenches and usernames are your camouflage.. you are not man enough to
deal with your own problems and come online to ask equally boring strangers
about how to deal with compulsive shopping. yeah, golden age right.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">42.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:18<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675067"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675067#post5675067"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#42</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="42"></a><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_199" o:spid="_x0000_i1112"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">You do realize punjabis also have
"Khan" surname? Not as common as in KP ofcourse.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">im not ignorant, i know quite alot
about pashtuns who have won the VC, was just correcting akher<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">43.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:20<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675071"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675071#post5675071"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#43</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="43"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Japanese army was very cruel to the british
pows. Japanese PoWs in my family did not live long after the war.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">An old family friend of ours was
captured by the Japanese who pitied him and the others captured for fighting
for white men and treated them fairly decently. I guess he was lucky.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">44.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:23<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675075"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675075#post5675075"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#44</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="44"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">To be honest I dont feel much pride
for those Pakistani or Indian soldiers. They were fighting for the freedom of
others but had no freedom of their own.<br />
<br />
I don't condemn them but I guess my overriding feeling is of sympathy for all
that they had to do and see for their oppressors war.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">45.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:24<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675079"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675079#post5675079"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#45</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="45"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">im not ignorant, i know quite alot about
pashtuns who have won the VC, was just correcting akher<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">At the end of the day he was
Pakistani, thats the important part.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">46.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:34<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675104"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675104#post5675104"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#46</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="46"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">there was no pakistan during that
time dude<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">47.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:44<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675136"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675136#post5675136"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#47</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="47"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">There was always a pakistan..right
from the ancient baluchitherium dinosaur to the 7 foot tall porus to shahid afridi.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">48.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:47<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675144"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675144#post5675144"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#48</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="48"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_219"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">There was always a pakistan..right from the
ancient baluchitherium dinosaur to the 7 foot tall porus to shahid afridi.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Well said</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">49.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:49<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675149"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675149#post5675149"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#49</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="49"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">There was always a pakistan..right from the
ancient baluchitherium dinosaur to the 7 foot tall porus to shahid afridi.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Reminds me of Ancient Macedonia and
it's famous Kings Phillip and Alexander claimed by ....<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">50.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:53<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675163"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675163#post5675163"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#50</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="50"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">wonder what our grandkids will have to say about
us.<br />
<br />
my grandfather was a legendary poster/troll, he had over 10 thousand posts.<br />
my grandfather was expert in Bollywood news.<br />
my cousins grandfather was such a warrior that he got his IP blocked from
neighbour's forums.<br />
<br />
what have we achieved that our grandkids would be proud of us?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">your age group peers in Syria, Iraq,
Afghanistan & Palestine wont have to worry like you . They will have a
completely different story to tell, to their grandchildren<br />
<br />
easy to relay views on a forum, and being all anonymous. But none of us can be
worthy of being chivalrous.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by kamz; 23rd March 2013
at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 15:55</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">51.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 15:55<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675172"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675172#post5675172"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#51</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="51"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_234"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">An old family friend of ours was captured by the
Japanese who pitied him and the others captured for fighting for white men and
treated them fairly decently. I guess he was lucky.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">To be honest I dont feel much pride for those
Pakistani or Indian soldiers. They were fighting for the freedom of others but
had no freedom of their own.<br />
<br />
I don't condemn them but I guess my overriding feeling is of sympathy for all
that they had to do and see for their oppressors war.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">How much have you looked into WWII
history so far?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">52.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:02<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675186"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675186#post5675186"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#52</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="52"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_240"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">How much have you looked into WWII history so
far?<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Enough to wonder why poor guys from
India were fighting for Britain who didnt give a damn about them.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">53.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:06<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675200"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675200#post5675200"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#53</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="53"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">i share the views of DV, but didn't
want to express it here. The British Indian soldiers fought because being a
part of the british army was a prestigious position to hold..you became a part
of the rulers..they had accepted the subservient role under a benign ruler who
gave them the respect in society (martial race theory) and they gave their
lives in return.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">54.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:15<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675222"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675222#post5675222"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#54</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="54"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">They were part of the British empire,
they had all rights if not duties to serve it, and in fact it seems that these
Punjabi Muslims at least preferred to "serve" them than some others,
as soon after they asked for a new country, so they didn't "hate"
them that much, probably why so many of them are found in the UK nowadays I
guess.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">55.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:20<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675238"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675238#post5675238"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#55</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="55"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">khudad khan (is a pashtun akher), but born in
punjab like imran khan and ahmed shahzad, so if you want to claim him as your
own then fair enough<br />
mir dast khan<br />
ali haider khan bangash<br />
<br />
<br />
the three pashtun in history to recieve a victorias cross for bravery</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
just correcting what was in the op, dont mind<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Bro.<br />
<br />
First of all I said that it concerned</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">a lot</span></i><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">of ethnicities of today's Pakistan, not only Punjabis.<br />
Punjabis, Pashtuns, Baloch and even Sindhis, and in fact many of the Sikhs who
then went to today's India were from today's Pakistan at the time when they
chose the British Indian Army.<br />
BUT I precised that Punjabi Muslims were special in the sense that they were
the most numerous and called the "backbone" of the said Army.<br />
<br />
Now, about Khudadad Khan, he might have been Pashtun but in British papers he
was born in Punjab and probably classified as such but even if that's not the
case, that doesn't change what I said in OP : a lot of the soldiers were from
today's Pakistan AND within THAT group, the majority were Punjabi Muslims.<br />
<br />
That thread was for ALL British Pakistanis.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Prakash Singh 13th Frontier Force
Rifles</span></b><b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
<br />
He was from our clan from my mother's side.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Eagle_Eye; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 16:24</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">56.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:25<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675253"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675253#post5675253"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#57</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="57"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?1269-Bewal-Express&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720" title="Bewal Express is online now"><b><span style="color: #181818; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">Bewal
Express</span></b></a><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">One of the reasons that Punjabi
muslims were valued by the British was because of their perceived bravery and
on the other side of the coin-in the case of my Dad and others in our village,
the land wasn`t fertile enough( lack of rainfall in the pothowar and no rivers)
to feed the families so they had to find another source of income.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">57.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:30<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675273"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675273#post5675273"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#58</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="58"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">They were part of the British empire, they had
all rights if not duties to serve it, and in fact it seems that these Punjabi
Muslims at least preferred to "serve" them than some others, as soon
after they asked for a new country, so they didn't "hate" them that
much, probably why so many of them are found in the UK nowadays I guess.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Sure, they had the forced duty to
serve it. Members of my own family did too and as I said its not something I
condemn but given the atrocities that the British committed its not something
that I'm totally proud of. I commend their bravery but not their cause.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">58.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:33<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675285"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675285#post5675285"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#59</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="59"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Enough to wonder why poor guys from India were
fighting for Britain who didnt give a damn about them.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I just assumed from your statements
that you were aware of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere post-1940 and
also the principle of hakkō ichiu, which together suggest that Imperial Japan
after conquering all of East Asia and isolating Australia would then have
looked to press its interests further west; the Japanese Empire at its peak
ruled territories and maintained puppet governments on the doorstep of the
Indian subcontinent. Historians generally feel that Japan would have become a
dominant pan-Asian imperial power had the war panned out differently (you would
also presumably see that as an oppressive outcome). So there are lots of
reasons why South Asians may have fought on the Allied side.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">59.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:35<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675290"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675290#post5675290"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#60</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="60"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">i share the views of DV,</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">but didn't want to express it here.</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">The British Indian soldiers fought because being
a part of the british army was a prestigious position to hold..you became a
part of the rulers..they had accepted the subservient role under a benign ruler
who gave them the respect in society (martial race theory) and they gave their
lives in return.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Its something I dont like expressing
either. I usually inform British people of the sacrifices made by Indians
during the empire when they get carried away with the way their grandparents
etc died for them to be free but I dont feel particularly proud about it.<br />
<br />
Its strange as I'm British and loyal to Britain but can't identify with my
ancestors who were 'loyal' to the British empire of that time. I identify more
with the INA tbh.<br />
<br />
Again just to point out not a condemnation of anybody who died in the British
Indian army, I totally respect and admire them.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">60.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:37<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675297"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675297#post5675297"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#61</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="61"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Sure, they had the forced duty to serve it.
Members of my own family did too and as I said its not something I condemn but
given the atrocities that the British committed its not something that I'm
totally proud of. I commend their bravery but not their cause.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">In recent and contemporary history i
think you will fail to find a cause to go to war more noble than to defeat
imperial japan</span><b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></b><b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">imo</span></b><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">61.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:37<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675298"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675298#post5675298"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#62</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="62"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">I just assumed from your statements that you
were aware of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere post-1940 and also the
principle of hakkō ichiu, which together suggest that Imperial Japan after
conquering all of East Asia and isolating Australia would then have looked to
press its interests further west; the Japanese Empire at its peak ruled
territories and maintained puppet governments on the doorstep of the Indian
subcontinent. Historians generally feel that Japan would have become a dominant
pan-Asian imperial power had the war panned out differently (you would also
presumably see that as an oppressive outcome). So there are lots of reasons why
South Asians may have fought on the Allied side.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">What difference would it have made
to British Indians? A new master thats all. They were second class citizens and
not able to choose their own destiny under the British.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by DeadlyVenom; 23rd
March 2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 16:38</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">62.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:38<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675301"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675301#post5675301"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#63</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="63"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">In recent and contemporary history i think you
will fail to find a cause to go to war more noble than to defeat imperial japan</span></i><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">imo</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">They were already living under a
brutal empire. Theirs something deliciously ironic about fighting the Imperial
Japanese on behalf of the Imperial British.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">63.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:42<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675316"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675316#post5675316"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#64</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="64"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">What difference would it have made to British
Indians? A new master thats all. They were second class citizens and not able
to choose their own destiny under the British.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I'm not sure what point you're
trying to make. Would you have preferred an alternative history where we were
all (not just Asian people) ruled under the Fourth Reich or the Empire of
Japan? Because these were the aggressors, the forces which were defeated in the
Second World War by the Allies, Commonwealth et al.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">64.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:45<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675325"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675325#post5675325"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#65</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="65"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">They were already living under a brutal empire.
Theirs something deliciously ironic about fighting the Imperial Japanese on
behalf of the Imperial British.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">i can only talk about what ive heard
from my family members, and there was nothing brutal about living under the
british for them. you have to remember the indian subcontinent was a pastiche
of semi autonomous, vassal and directly ruled states therefore the treatment of
citizens varied from area to area.<br />
<br />
the areas from which the british empire recruited soldiers were usually allowed
to get on with there life.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">65.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:47<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675333"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675333#post5675333"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#66</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="66"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">They were already living under a brutal empire.
Theirs something deliciously ironic about fighting the Imperial Japanese on
behalf of the Imperial British.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">the Empire of Japan killed around 10
million East Asian civilians between 1936 and 1945, and millions more in its
existence before that, presumably you knew all of this as well.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">66.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:48<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675334"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675334#post5675334"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#67</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="67"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">They were already living under a brutal empire.
Theirs something deliciously ironic about fighting the Imperial Japanese on
behalf of the Imperial British.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Well, that's where I don't agree, as
it actually wasn't.<br />
<br />
How can few hundred thousands of British civil servants control the whole SC ?
Simply because they weren't the French, who's soldiers in Algeria used to take
photo-shoots with beheaded rebels, even less the Spanish, who, we all know,
literally annihilated any trace of indigenous life where they put their
imperial step.<br />
Let's be honest, the British were the most "respectable colonisers"
(if indeed that's not an oxymoron), these Punjabi Muslims who enrolled in such
numbers probably felt safer under them than Ranjit Singh and the Sikhs who used
to humiliate them.<br />
Why during the famous 1857 "independence" war against the British
there was literally no noise from today's Pak Punjab, and nearly all from
UP/Bihar (where the Mughals still had influence) ?<br />
Simply because the British were perhaps not</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">that</span></i><i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></i><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">cruel to today's Pakistanis.<br />
<br />
Just look at the major cities of Pakistan like Karachi or Lahore and you can
see major British legacy, whereas nothing from the Sikhs.<br />
<br />
In fact, if you go back in the time and you'd ask those who live in today's Pak
Punjab who they would have preferred between the British, the Mughals and the
Sikhs, they would have given their preference by putting British at first and
Sikhs last.<br />
<br />
You also have to keep in mind that there wasn't any nation back then. There was
no "Pakistan" (or "India") and they didn't felt that their
"country" was "occupied". The identity back then was not
even cultural (Punjabi) but probably local (in terms of caste), so when they
saw British building roads and schools instead of Sikhs transforming mosques
into dumps, they probably welcomed them warmly.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">67.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:51<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675345"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675345#post5675345"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#68</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="68"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">They were already living under a brutal empire.
Theirs something deliciously ironic about fighting the Imperial Japanese on
behalf of the Imperial British.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">You are making a comparison that is
not borne out of any real historical fact here.<br />
<br />
Japan were far, far more brutal than the British Empire - who were a loathsome
empire that exploited many a population - there's that famous phrase, 'the sun
never sets on the British Empire, because God doesn't trust the British in the
dark'. The British Empire was far from that moralising force that the likes of
Kipling depict it to be. Don't get me started on the morally bankrupt British
Empire.<br />
<br />
However your statement that they would be living under another brutal empire
'that's all' is ludicrous. Japan's campaign of colonisation between the late
19th century and until the end of the Second World War was one of the worst
episodes in history. Between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from
nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese,
Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos and Indochinese, among others, including
Western prisoners of war.<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">The historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:
"It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis
aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised.
The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians (i.e. Soviet
citizens); the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays,
Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them
ethnic Chinese.</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
<br />
Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale,</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">though Japan plundered more, over a longer
period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as
forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as (forced) prostitutes for
front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America,
Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not the Soviet Union) you faced a 4%
chance of not surviving the war; (by comparison) the death rate for Allied POWs
held by the Japanese was nearly 30%</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">."<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Japan carried out human
experimentation on civilians and POWs, not to mention the use of 'comfort
women'.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
This martial race idea is nonsense, there was a reason why people in the Indian
sub-continent fought against the Japanese and it certainly wasn't out of their
loyalty and affection for the British, it was to defeat one of the most savage
entities in history.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Markhor; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 16:52</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">68.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:53<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675358"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675358#post5675358"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#69</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="69"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Well, that's where I don't agree, as it actually
wasn't.<br />
<br />
How can few hundred thousands of British civil servants control the whole SC ?
Simply because they weren't the French, who's soldiers in Algeria used to take
photo-shoots with beheaded rebels, even less the Spanish, who, we all know,
literally annihilated any trace of indigenous life where they put their
imperial step.<br />
Let's be honest, the British were the most "respectable colonisers"
(if indeed that's not an oxymoron), these Punjabi Muslims who enrolled in such
numbers probably felt safer under them than Ranjit Singh and the Sikhs who used
to humiliate them.<br />
Why during the famous 1857 "independence" war against the British
there was literally no noise from today's Pak Punjab, and nearly all from
UP/Bihar (where the Mughals still had influence) ?<br />
Simply because the British were perhaps not</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">that</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">cruel to today's Pakistanis.<br />
<br />
Just look at the major cities of Pakistan like Karachi or Lahore and you can
see major British legacy, whereas nothing from the Sikhs.<br />
<br />
In fact, if you go back in the time and you'd ask those who live in today's Pak
Punjab who they would have preferred between the British, the Mughals and the
Sikhs, they would have given their preference by putting British at first and
Sikhs last.<br />
<br />
You also have to keep in mind that there wasn't any nation back then. There was
no "Pakistan" (or "India") and they didn't felt that their
"country" was "occupied". The identity back then was not
even cultural (Punjabi) but probably local (in terms of caste), so when they
saw British building roads and schools instead of Sikhs transforming mosques
into dumps, they probably welcomed them warmly.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">very well said, id also like to add
the british empire in india as found under the east india company was a
business venture, and for the punjabis of modern day pakistan colonisation by
the british was also seen almost as a business venture, in so much as they
viewed the brits as providing an administrative structure which they paid for
by there tax money.<br />
<br />
that is why they so readily accepted all british poltical and military
institutions. they were militarily dominated by the brits, so they looked to
make the most of the situation.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by ElRaja; 23rd March
2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 16:55</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">69.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:55<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675366"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675366#post5675366"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#70</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="70"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">i can only talk about what ive heard from my
family members, and there was nothing brutal about living under the british for
them. you have to remember the indian subcontinent was a pastiche of semi
autonomous, vassal and directly ruled states therefore the treatment of
citizens varied from area to area.<br />
<br />
the areas from which the british empire recruited soldiers were usually allowed
to get on with there life.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">It was an occupation. Those people
who asked for rights were put down brutally.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">70.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 16:59<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675386"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675386#post5675386"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#71</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="71"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id="Picture_x0020_330"
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">the Empire of Japan killed around 10 million
East Asian civilians between 1936 and 1945, and millions more in its existence
before that, presumably you knew all of this as well.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">In his book Late Victorian
Holocausts, published in 2001, Mike Davis tells the story of famines that
killed between 12 and 29 million Indians. These people were, he demonstrates,
murdered by British state policy. When an El Niño drought destituted the farmers
of the Deccan plateau in 1876 there was a net surplus of rice and wheat in
India. But the viceroy, Lord Lytton, insisted that nothing should prevent its
export to England. In 1877 and 1878, at the height of the famine, grain
merchants exported a record 6.4m hundredweight of wheat. As the peasants began
to starve, officials were ordered “to discourage relief works in every possible
way”. The Anti-Charitable Contributions Act of 1877 prohibited “at the pain of
imprisonment private relief donations that potentially interfered with the
market fixing of grain prices”. The only relief permitted in most districts was
hard labour, from which anyone in an advanced state of starvation was turned
away. In the labour camps, the workers were given less food than inmates of
Buchenwald. In 1877, monthly mortality in the camps equated to an annual death
rate of 94%.<br />
<br />
As millions died, the imperial government launched “a militarised campaign to
collect the tax arrears accumulated during the drought”. The money, which ruined
those who might otherwise have survived the famine, was used by Lytton to fund
his war in Afghanistan. Even in places that had produced a crop surplus, the
government’s export policies, like Stalin’s in Ukraine, manufactured hunger. In
the north-western provinces, Oud and the Punjab, which had brought in record
harvests in the preceeding three years, at least 1.25m died.<br />
<br />
From Late Victorian Holocausts.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
How can few hundred thousands of British civil servants control the whole SC ?
Simply because they weren't the French, who's soldiers in Algeria used to take
photo-shoots with beheaded rebels, even less the Spanish, who, we all know,
literally annihilated any trace of indigenous life where they put their
imperial step.<br />
Let's be honest, the British were the most "respectable colonisers"
(if indeed that's not an oxymoron), these Punjabi Muslims who enrolled in such
numbers probably felt safer under them than Ranjit Singh and the Sikhs who used
to humiliate them.<br />
Why during the famous 1857 "independence" war against the British there
was literally no noise from today's Pak Punjab, and nearly all from UP/Bihar
(where the Mughals still had influence) ?<br />
Simply because the British were perhaps not</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">that</span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">cruel to today's Pakistanis.<br />
<br />
Just look at the major cities of Pakistan like Karachi or Lahore and you can
see major British legacy, whereas nothing from the Sikhs.<br />
<br />
In fact, if you go back in the time and you'd ask those who live in today's Pak
Punjab who they would have preferred between the British, the Mughals and the
Sikhs, they would have given their preference by putting British at first and
Sikhs last.<br />
<br />
You also have to keep in mind that there wasn't any nation back then. There was
no "Pakistan" (or "India") and they didn't felt that their
"country" was "occupied". The identity back then was not
even cultural (Punjabi) but probably local (in terms of caste), so when they
saw British building roads and schools instead of Sikhs transforming mosques
into dumps, they probably welcomed them warmly.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Your post is not incorrect. However
again I can only see irony in occupied people fighting for the freedom of their
occupiers. During world war 2 the forces of democracy threw Nehru into prison
for a civil protest</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-no-proof: yes;"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape
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<br />
Only out of fear of the Japanese did Britain make some concessions to Indians. So
I guess for that I am strangely thankful to Japan.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Tahoma;">71.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;">
</span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">23rd March 2013, 17:09<a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="post5675419"></a><a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?174930-Today-s-Pakistanis-in-the-British-Indian-Army-during-WWII&s=b4e4810196744441ee534faba4b55720&p=5675419#post5675419"><span style="color: white; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">#73</span></a></span><a href="https://www.blogger.com/null" name="73"></a><span style="color: white; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">It was an occupation. Those people who asked for
rights were put down brutally.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">i dont mean to sound flippant of the
people who died at the hands of the british in many parts of the empire, but
talking specifically of that time and that place, i.e. pothwar region of modern
day pak, where my family are from, the right to keeping your own land and
fairly comprehensive religious and cultural freedom was more human rights than
most people had.<br />
<br />
there was no idea of a political agitation for the sake of others who may be
suffering in other parts of the empire. it was a good life, whether it was the
sikhs, mughals, or brits what difference would it make to a farmer as long as
they are given the right to their property.<br />
<br />
it may sound selfish but thats hw it was.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: Verdana;">72.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;"> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Taking the side of
the british was the way of social mobility for some communities..and british
exploited that using their martial race theory.. tell a pathan for example,
that he is the bravest of all people and pat his back, and he is taken for a
ride and gives you his unquestioning loyalty. this was the case for many
soldiers from different communities..subservient roles to a benign master.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">73.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-style: normal;">
</span></span></i><!--[endif]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Taking the side of the british was the way of
social mobility for some communities..and british exploited that using their
martial race theory..</span></i><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">tell a pathan for example, that he is the bravest of all people
and pat his back, and he is taken for a ride and gives you his unquestioning
loyalty.</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">this was the case for
many soldiers from different communities..subservient roles to a benign master.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">what a dumb thing to say, the brits chose to play the martial
race card on the pathans because fighting with them wasnt worth the effort. the
brits were martially superior and the pathans knew this, a war with the pathans
would have been a waste of time, money and lives on both sides. if you can
diplomatically come to an arrangement, why not?<br />
<br />
any other ethnic group in british india would have done much the same like many
a "royal prince" did all over india to appease the empire. no doubt
flattered by the british appreciation of their majesty.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by ElRaja; 23rd March 2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 17:20</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">74.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-style: normal;">
</span></span></i><!--[endif]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">]i dont mean to sound flippant of the people who
died at the hands of the british in many parts of the empire, but talking
specifically of that time and that place, i.e. pothwar region of modern day
pak, where my family are from, the right to keeping your own land and fairly
comprehensive religious and cultural freedom was more human rights than most
people had.[/B]<br />
<br />
there was no idea of a political agitation for the sake of others who may be
suffering in other parts of the empire. it was a good life, whether it was the
sikhs, mughals, or brits what difference would it make to a farmer as long as
they are given the right to their property.<br />
<br />
it may sound selfish but thats hw it was.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Can you go into detail? Against what people are you comparing
them?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: Verdana;">75.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt;"> </span></span><!--[endif]--><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Oh just learned
that BBC news presenter Mishal Husain's grandfather, Major General Syed Shahid
Hamid , was not only in the British Indian Army, but quite an important
individiual in Pakistan's history too<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">SYED SHAHID HAMID was one of the most important
military and political figures in the early years of Pakistan. As private
secretary to Field Marshal Sir Claude Auchinleck, the last Commander- in-Chief
of the British-Indian army before India was partitioned in 1947, Shahid Hamid
was an inside player in the crucial months during partition - a period which he
later researched and on which he wrote several books.<br />
<br />
Shahid Hamid was a man of wide interests: a soldier, writer, explorer,
sportsman, educationalist and a devout Muslim<br />
...<br />
Shahid Hamid opted for Pakistan and, as a Lieutenant-Colonel in 1948, he set up
the now famous Inter Services Intelligence from a small office in Karachi. The
ISI is Pakistan's premier intelligence agency and virtually ran the Afghan war
against the Soviet invaders. In 1951, at the age of 41, he became the youngest
general in the Pakistan army - a record that is still unbeaten. During the 1958
martial law imposed by General Ayub Khan, Shahid Hamid was the adjutant-general
of the army. Retiring in 1964, he went into business but was summoned back to
public life in 1978 by President Zia ul-Haq, under whom he served as a federal
cabinet minister for three years.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<a href="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/obituary-majgen-syed-shahid-hamid-1497723.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: black; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; text-decoration: none; text-underline: none;">http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...d-1497723.html</span></a><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
<br />
Considering that boxer Amir Khan's family are Rajputs from Rawalpindi, I'm
*SURE* he had some relatives there too.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by akheR; 23rd March 2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 17:21</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">76.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-style: normal;">
</span></span></i><!--[endif]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">The preparations for British withdrawal from India had already
begun before World War II started, and the INA or the movements arising out of
it achieved nothing other than to collaborate with a Japanese Empire that was
allied to one of the most horrific ideologies in Nazi Germany. The will to
relinquish the Raj existed already.<br />
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> </span><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">What difference would it have made to British
Indians? A new master thats all. They were second class citizens and not able
to choose their own destiny under the British.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">I don't think we should get into an argument of which empire was
worse as we risk reducing World War Two to 'good guy, bad guy', which it was
not. You have to look at the context of the situation. What do you think would
have happened if the Indian SC came under Japanese rule ? The Japanese had a
mantra of 'Kill all, rape all, loot all' - look at the treatment of the Chinese
- the British were brutal but nothing on the scale of the Chinese occupation by
Japan.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
<br />
Japan's racial prejudices would have meant that the Indians of the
sub-continent will have been viewed as inferior and would also have been
subject to harsh rule too.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
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In six weeks alone, the Japanese killed 250,000 in Nanking, 20,000 women were
raped, including infants and the elderly. The women were often killed
immediately after being raped, often through explicit mutilation or by stabbing
a bayonet, long stick of bamboo, or other objects into the vagina. Young
children were not exempt from these atrocities, and were cut open to allow
Japanese soldiers to rape them.</span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span><span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"><br />
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On 19 December 1937, Reverend James M. McCallum wrote in his diary:<br />
<br />
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">I know not where to end. Never I have heard or
read such brutality. Rape! Rape! Rape! We estimate at least 1,000 cases a
night, and many by day. In case of resistance or anything that seems like
disapproval, there is a bayonet stab or a bullet ... People are hysterical ...
Women are being carried off every morning, afternoon and evening. The whole
Japanese army seems to be free to go and come as it pleases, and to do whatever
it pleases.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Japan had no interest in bringing about self-determination for
Indians, only to gain strategic access to the Indian Ocean. Japan also believed
in the same Nazi ideology of racial supremacy - they believed the Yamato race
was pure and that they had a divine right to enslave other races. Indeed Gandhi
made your point about the hypocrisy of the British, but again, ask the Chinese
what they think of the Japanese occupation and they'll testify it was one of
the most darkest periods in their history.<br />
<br />
Between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to
over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos and
Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. The Japanese
also slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese,
Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic
Chinese.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">Last edited by Markhor; 23rd March 2013 at</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-bidi-font-size: 11.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";"> 17:23</span></i><i><span style="color: #3e3e3e; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 7.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<!--[if !supportLists]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">77.<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 7pt; font-style: normal;">
</span></span></i><!--[endif]--><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">Prakash Singh 13th Frontier Force Rifles</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"> </span></i></b><i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;"><br />
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He was from our clan from my mother's side.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<span style="color: #333333; font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; font-size: 8.0pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">How's that possible. Or did moms side convert to Islam ?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<i><span style="font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 8pt;">what a dumb thing to say, the brits chose to
play the martial race card on the pathans because fighting with them wasnt
worth the effort. the brits were martially superior no doubt, but a war with
the pathans would have been a waste of time, money and lives if you can
diplomatically bring them into the structure.<br />
<br />
any other ethnic group in British india would have done much the same like many
a "royal prince" did all over india to appease the empire. no doubt
flattered by the British appreciation of their majesty.<o:p></o:p></span></i></div>
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<b><span style="color: red; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 12.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 7.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";">the brits could have thrashed anyone, not because they were
braver..but because they had the best arms in the world..but you are right, they
didnt want to waste time fighting..When the same tribes could be won over by
patronizing them.. There was a reason they disbanded the bengal regiment,
because it was where the 1857 rebellion began after that the brits played their
card well and started patronizing groups that were loyal to them. i wouldn’t be
proud of something like that.<o:p></o:p></span></b></div>
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